What it ultimately comes down to isn’t it? That’s also why I like the last study: mixed meal, protein synthesis going on, glucose uptake is *mildly* inhibited. To quote Alan Aragon:

When speaking of nutrition for improving body composition or performance, it’s crucial to realize there’s an underlying hierarchy of importance. At the top of the hierarchy of effects is the total amount of the macronutrients by the end of the day. Below that – and I mean distantly below that – is the precise timing of those nutrients.

It works both ways: “I HAVE to get a post workout shake or my muscles will fall off!” is just as bad as ” I HAVE to fast or gene expression won’t take place and GH response will be blunted and my muscles won’t remodel and I’ll store a shitload of bodyfat!” Same neurosis, different wording; get the diet right first and don’t worry so much about everything else…that’s the message.

One more thing: I just found a study regarding fat loss in individuals with high levels of circulating insulin. They lost ~20lbs in 60 days in spite having excessively high circulating insulin. Take a look and let me know what you think:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10022419?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Best,
Skyler

Thanks much for the detailed reply. I’ll certainly consider changing things up if/when I plateau. It could certainly be psychological, but I keep enjoying the sensation of the “perfect storm” when I workout fasted.

I don’t always make an effort to avoid eating right after I train. Only on the days when I do fast (maybe once a week?), and when I work out between noon and 3, do I find that the mid-fast workout makes finishing the fast a manageable and even enjoyable experience.

On a side note, perhaps I simply enjoy being able to say that I fast after working out because it illicits the most humorous reactions. “your body is going to fall apart,” “your muscles are going to waste away.” The idea that there is some precious opportunity for muscular repair that can never be had again, if missed, is something that seems a just little too good, for the supplement companies, to be true.

-bryce

However, whether this is going to make any difference at all for you and your goals is really a wash. If your training started to stall, it would be something to explore. If things are swimming, don’t rock the boat! I tend toward being hungry after my training but since finding that I didn’t need to elevate insulin much, I’ve just cut back to whey. It’s worked for me and my goals.

Best,
Skyler

First, thank you for dropping by my corner of the net! Second, I suspect that Sly was a creature of old habits: Testosterone and the addition of GH make a potent combination. Also add to that the fact that many of these guys inject insulin with their GH (often referred to in such corners of the net as “GH/Slin”). The “cocktail” makes the story very different.

Best,
Skyler

-Steve

You’re correct that I’ve focus on the GH release aspect I’ve focused on is specific to hypertrophy/protein synthesis. You’re not mistaken regarding GH mobilizing fatty acids. However, I recall Lyle Mcdonald talking about how during the start of the refeed period one could continue to burn fat whilst ingesting massive, massive amounts of carbohydrates. Far above the amount I’m suggesting and specific to a certain level of depletion.

What I take away from it, though, is that further elevating GH will further release FFA; if that’s true or not I’m unsure and will look into. Thanks for the inquiry!

Best,
Skyler

Great post as usual.

I think you’ve done a fine job dismantling the notion that going through hoops to maximize GH is the secret to optimum muscle growth.

But, for a guy like me who doesn’t strive for hypertrophy, the fatty acid mobilization effects of GH still seem to be beneficial. All the studies you cite deal with whether or not GH affects muscle growth/strength, but don’t really seem to deal with whether or not it stimulates fat release for use as energy. Unless I’m mistaken, no one disputes that GH causes fatty acid mobilization, and that working out in a fasted state leads to a little extra GH being produced.

Even if carbs right after a workout, and the resulting insulin they illicit, don’t affect how much GH is produced, they would certainly affect how much fat is released. It is my understanding that insulin inhibits fatty acid mobilization.

When I workout in the middle of a 24 hour fast, not only is this when I always get my best and most amped workouts, but I find my energy levels go up dramatically afterwards, along with any shred of hunger disappearing for a few extra hours. Am I mistaken in attributing this in part to Growth Hormone being released which, in turn, is causes extra fat to be mobilized. This seems like a good thing to me, from a purely fat loss driven perspective.

-Bryce